Forgive me if I've asked before; forgive me if it's been discussed recently: What makes gumbo be gumbo? The okra? The rice in the bowl first? The addition of hot sauce at the table? The preparation of the roux? Or is gumbo *only* the cajun name for a soup that uses leftover game or poultry?
I made another potful last night and I'm not looking for a recipe‹ I have a couple in my files that provide guidance; I am interested in conversation about what makes it gumbo.
> Forgive me if I've asked before; forgive me if it's been discussed > recently: What makes gumbo be gumbo? The okra? The rice in the bowl > first? The addition of hot sauce at the table? The preparation of the > roux? Or is gumbo *only* the cajun name for a soup that uses leftover > game or poultry?
> I made another potful last night and I'm not looking for a recipe< I > have a couple in my files that provide guidance; I am interested in > conversation about what makes it gumbo.
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:51:02 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
<barbschal...@earthlink.net> wrote: >Forgive me if I've asked before; forgive me if it's been discussed >recently: What makes gumbo be gumbo? The okra? The rice in the bowl >first? The addition of hot sauce at the table? The preparation of the >roux? Or is gumbo *only* the cajun name for a soup that uses leftover >game or poultry?
>I made another potful last night and I'm not looking for a recipe‹ I >have a couple in my files that provide guidance; I am interested in >conversation about what makes it gumbo.
Without filé powder it's not gumbo.
filé powder [FEE-lay, fih-LAY] Choctaw Indians from the Louisiana bayou country are said to have been the first users of this seasoning made from the ground, dried leaves of the sassafras tree. It's since become an integral part of CREOLE COOKING and is used to thicken and flavor GUMBOS and other Creole dishes. Filé has a woodsy flavor reminiscent of root beer. It must be stirred into a dish after it's removed from the heat because undue cooking makes filé tough and stringy. Filé powder is available in the spice or gourmet section of most large supermarkets. As with all spices, it should be stored in a cool, dark place for no more than 6 months.
On Mar 11, 11:51 am, Melba's Jammin' <barbschal...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Forgive me if I've asked before; forgive me if it's been discussed > recently: What makes gumbo be gumbo? The okra? The rice in the bowl > first? The addition of hot sauce at the table? The preparation of the > roux? Or is gumbo *only* the cajun name for a soup that uses leftover > game or poultry?
> I made another potful last night and I'm not looking for a recipe I > have a couple in my files that provide guidance; I am interested in > conversation about what makes it gumbo.
Gumbo is the word for okra. So, technically it's not a gumbo unless you have okra in it. Personally I love okra in gumbos. There are as many ways to make gumbo as there are cooks.
Melba's Jammin' wrote: > Forgive me if I've asked before; forgive me if it's been discussed > recently: What makes gumbo be gumbo? The okra? The rice in the bowl > first? The addition of hot sauce at the table? The preparation of the > roux? Or is gumbo *only* the cajun name for a soup that uses leftover > game or poultry?
> I made another potful last night and I'm not looking for a recipe‹ I > have a couple in my files that provide guidance; I am interested in > conversation about what makes it gumbo.
> What are your thoughts?
IMHO, the okra makes it gumbo. But if okra is out of season, you can substitute file' powder and still call it gumbo. (The etymology of the word gumbo even still works. It's ambiguous; "kombo" is the Choctaw word for sassafras, "gumbo" is an African word for okra.)
BTW, gumbo is a Cajun dish (think hotdish) rather than Creole (more continental, dirties every pot in the kitchen to make.) Jambalaya is Creole.
In article <barbschaller-BF2748.13510211032...@news-2.mpls.iphouse.net>, Melba's Jammin' <barbschal...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Forgive me if I've asked before; forgive me if it's been discussed > recently: What makes gumbo be gumbo? The okra? The rice in the bowl > first? The addition of hot sauce at the table? The preparation of the > roux? Or is gumbo *only* the cajun name for a soup that uses leftover > game or poultry?
Good question! I've seen sausage and chicken gumbo, alligator gumbo, shrimp gumbo. I think it might just be Cajun for thickened stew.
I make gumbo with chicken thighs and spicy smoked sausages, okra, no file powder, lots of celery, onion and peppers, some garlic.
Regards, Ranee @ Arabian Knits
"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13
Or is gumbo *only* the cajun name for a soup that uses leftover > game or poultry?
Leftover? I never knew you could?
> I made another potful last night and I'm not looking for a recipe< I > > have a couple in my files that provide guidance; I am interested in > > conversation about what makes it gumbo.
> What are your thoughts?
Being a New Englander, I went straight to Louisianans for recipes and settled on one that was I think Prudhonne. His roux instrructions are almost literary. I used to have a gumbo night once a year in winter. Oh, lovely, marvelous, delicious. I've made it once here and it cost a month's grocery budget. It was a bit of an excess I suppose, but there is nothing better in the world.
> In article > <barbschaller-BF2748.13510211032...@news-2.mpls.iphouse.net>, > Melba's Jammin' <barbschal...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Forgive me if I've asked before; forgive me if it's been discussed >> recently: What makes gumbo be gumbo? The okra? The rice in the bowl >> first? The addition of hot sauce at the table? The preparation of the >> roux? Or is gumbo *only* the cajun name for a soup that uses leftover >> game or poultry?
> Good question! I've seen sausage and chicken gumbo, alligator gumbo, > shrimp gumbo. I think it might just be Cajun for thickened stew.
> I make gumbo with chicken thighs and spicy smoked sausages, okra, no > file powder, lots of celery, onion and peppers, some garlic.
> Regards, > Ranee @ Arabian Knits
> "She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13
I've just started experimenting with file' powder to thicken watery (tomato and bouillon based) soups without adding a starch. Haven't quite figured out the amount yet; I know it can get ropey and nasty if you cook it more than just a minute. Even tho' I haven't got the thickening right yet, I do like the taste it adds.
I found one gumbo recipe from Emerill that called for 1/2 cup of file powder to about 2 quarts of shrimp stock (plus the fish and stuff.) I may not know how much to use, but I know that's way too much!
"Giusi" <decob...@gmail.com> wrote: > I used to have a gumbo night once a year in winter. Oh, lovely, marvelous, > delicious. I've made it once here and it cost a month's grocery budget. > It was a bit of an excess I suppose, but there is nothing better in the > world.
What made it cost so much?! We use okra, onions, peppers, celery and garlic, oil and flour for the roux, smoked sausage and chicken thighs for the meat, chicken broth or water, basic herbs that we always have in the pantry and serve with rice, scallions and hot pepper vinegar. It's time consuming, but not expensive. I try to make a huge amount and freeze the extras. I may do that after Easter, in fact.
Regards, Ranee @ Arabian Knits
"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13
> >> Forgive me if I've asked before; forgive me if it's been discussed > >> recently: What makes gumbo be gumbo? The okra? The rice in the bowl > >> first? The addition of hot sauce at the table? The preparation of the > >> roux? Or is gumbo *only* the cajun name for a soup that uses leftover > >> game or poultry?
> > Good question! I've seen sausage and chicken gumbo, alligator gumbo, > > shrimp gumbo. I think it might just be Cajun for thickened stew.
> > I make gumbo with chicken thighs and spicy smoked sausages, okra, no > > file powder, lots of celery, onion and peppers, some garlic.
> > Regards, > > Ranee @ Arabian Knits
> > "She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13
> I've just started experimenting with file' powder to thicken watery > (tomato and bouillon based) soups without adding a starch. Haven't > quite figured out the amount yet; I know it can get ropey and nasty if > you cook it more than just a minute. Even tho' I haven't got the > thickening right yet, I do like the taste it adds.
> I found one gumbo recipe from Emerill that called for 1/2 cup of file > powder to about 2 quarts of shrimp stock (plus the fish and stuff.) I > may not know how much to use, but I know that's way too much!
> Bob- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
The reason your soup gets ropey is because you don't ever cook the file...you add the file to each bowl of soup individually to thicken it..... don't cook it.
ImStillMags wrote: > On Mar 11, 12:13 pm, zxcvbob <zxcv...@charter.net> wrote: >> Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote:
>>> In article >>> <barbschaller-BF2748.13510211032...@news-2.mpls.iphouse.net>, >>> Melba's Jammin' <barbschal...@earthlink.net> wrote: >>>> Forgive me if I've asked before; forgive me if it's been discussed >>>> recently: What makes gumbo be gumbo? The okra? The rice in the bowl >>>> first? The addition of hot sauce at the table? The preparation of the >>>> roux? Or is gumbo *only* the cajun name for a soup that uses leftover >>>> game or poultry? >>> Good question! I've seen sausage and chicken gumbo, alligator gumbo, >>> shrimp gumbo. I think it might just be Cajun for thickened stew. >>> I make gumbo with chicken thighs and spicy smoked sausages, okra, no >>> file powder, lots of celery, onion and peppers, some garlic. >>> Regards, >>> Ranee @ Arabian Knits >>> "She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13 >>> http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/ >> I've just started experimenting with file' powder to thicken watery >> (tomato and bouillon based) soups without adding a starch. Haven't >> quite figured out the amount yet; I know it can get ropey and nasty if >> you cook it more than just a minute. Even tho' I haven't got the >> thickening right yet, I do like the taste it adds.
>> I found one gumbo recipe from Emerill that called for 1/2 cup of file >> powder to about 2 quarts of shrimp stock (plus the fish and stuff.) I >> may not know how much to use, but I know that's way too much!
>> Bob- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
> The reason your soup gets ropey is because you don't ever cook the > file...you add the file to each bowl of soup individually to thicken > it..... don't cook it.
I've been adding it to the pot as soon as it comes off the heat. I haven't had it get ropey yet. Then add more at the table if necessary (but "at the table" doesn't thicken enough.)
> In article <7vt103Fif...@mid.individual.net>, > "Giusi" <decob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I used to have a gumbo night once a year in winter. Oh, lovely, >> marvelous, >> delicious. I've made it once here and it cost a month's grocery budget. >> It was a bit of an excess I suppose, but there is nothing better in the >> world.
> What made it cost so much?! We use okra, onions, peppers, celery and > garlic, oil and flour for the roux, smoked sausage and chicken thighs > for the meat, chicken broth or water, basic herbs that we always have in > the pantry and serve with rice, scallions and hot pepper vinegar. It's > time consuming, but not expensive. I try to make a huge amount and > freeze the extras. I may do that after Easter, in fact.
> Regards, > Ranee @ Arabian Knits
I thought the rice had to be cooked with the other ingredients. I don't know, just thought I heard that. Janet
>> I used to have a gumbo night once a year in winter. Oh, lovely, >> marvelous, >> delicious. I've made it once here and it cost a month's >> grocery budget. > What made it cost so much?! We use okra, onions, peppers, celery and > > garlic, oil and flour for the roux, smoked sausage and chicken thighs > > for the meat, chicken broth or water, basic herbs that we always have in > > the pantry and serve with rice, scallions and hot pepper vinegar. It's > > time consuming, but not expensive. I try to make a huge amount and > freeze the extras.
This particular Prudhonne recipe is luxurious with chicken, ham, oysters, crab, shrimp and any other seafoods not nailed down. It was expensive in the USA, but here where meat and fish cost 2-10 times as much it was killer.
> > In article <7vt103Fif...@mid.individual.net>, > > "Giusi" <decob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I used to have a gumbo night once a year in winter. Oh, lovely, > >> marvelous, > >> delicious. I've made it once here and it cost a month's grocery budget. > >> It was a bit of an excess I suppose, but there is nothing better in the > >> world.
> > What made it cost so much?! We use okra, onions, peppers, celery and > > garlic, oil and flour for the roux, smoked sausage and chicken thighs > > for the meat, chicken broth or water, basic herbs that we always have in > > the pantry and serve with rice, scallions and hot pepper vinegar. It's > > time consuming, but not expensive. I try to make a huge amount and > > freeze the extras. I may do that after Easter, in fact.
> > Regards, > > Ranee @ Arabian Knits
> I thought the rice had to be cooked with the other ingredients. I don't > know, just thought I heard that. > Janet- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Most gumbos in S. Louisiana are not cooked with the rice in them. Usually rice is served as a scoop on top of the gumbo or the gunbo is ladeled over the rice.
> >> I used to have a gumbo night once a year in winter. Oh, lovely, > >> marvelous, >> delicious. I've made it once here and it cost a month's > >> grocery budget. > > What made it cost so much?! We use okra, onions, peppers, celery and > > > garlic, oil and flour for the roux, smoked sausage and chicken thighs > > > for the meat, chicken broth or water, basic herbs that we always have in > > > the pantry and serve with rice, scallions and hot pepper vinegar. It's > > > time consuming, but not expensive. I try to make a huge amount and > > freeze the extras.
> This particular Prudhonne recipe is luxurious with chicken, ham, oysters, > crab, shrimp and any other seafoods not nailed down. It was expensive in > the USA, but here where meat and fish cost 2-10 times as much it was killer.
> Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote: >> In article <barbschaller-BF2748.13510211032...@news-2.mpls.iphouse.net>, >> Melba's Jammin' <barbschal...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Forgive me if I've asked before; forgive me if it's been discussed >>> recently: What makes gumbo be gumbo? The okra? The rice in the bowl >>> first? The addition of hot sauce at the table? The preparation of the >>> roux? Or is gumbo *only* the cajun name for a soup that uses leftover >>> game or poultry?
>> Good question! I've seen sausage and chicken gumbo, alligator gumbo, >> shrimp gumbo. I think it might just be Cajun for thickened stew. I make >> gumbo with chicken thighs and spicy smoked sausages, okra, no file >> powder, lots of celery, onion and peppers, some garlic.
>> Regards, >> Ranee @ Arabian Knits
>> "She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13
> I've just started experimenting with file' powder to thicken watery > (tomato and bouillon based) soups without adding a starch. Haven't quite > figured out the amount yet; I know it can get ropey and nasty if you cook > it more than just a minute. Even tho' I haven't got the thickening right > yet, I do like the taste it adds.
> I found one gumbo recipe from Emerill that called for 1/2 cup of file > powder to about 2 quarts of shrimp stock (plus the fish and stuff.) I may > not know how much to use, but I know that's way too much!
> Bob
Is that the one where he uses 3 cups of oil to make a roux? Jon
>> I found one gumbo recipe from Emerill that called for 1/2 cup of file >> powder to about 2 quarts of shrimp stock (plus the fish and stuff.) I >> may not know how much to use, but I know that's way too much!
>> Bob
> Is that the one where he uses 3 cups of oil to make a roux? > Jon
> Forgive me if I've asked before; forgive me if it's been discussed > recently: What makes gumbo be gumbo? The okra? The rice in the bowl > first? The addition of hot sauce at the table? The preparation of the > roux? Or is gumbo *only* the cajun name for a soup that uses leftover > game or poultry?
> I made another potful last night and I'm not looking for a recipe‹ I > have a couple in my files that provide guidance; I am interested in > conversation about what makes it gumbo.
> What are your thoughts?
The references I've seen all focus on the roux, the rice it's served over is a secondary focus. Certainly there are plenty of gumbo recipes that do not include okra.
I got tasked with making the gumbo for my dive club's Mardi Gras party when the regular LA native cook was unable to make it. The recipe I used was chicken and Andouile sausage and did not include any Okra. It was reported by quite a few people as "best ever".
> >> I found one gumbo recipe from Emerill that called for 1/2 cup of file > >> powder to about 2 quarts of shrimp stock (plus the fish and stuff.) I > >> may not know how much to use, but I know that's way too much!
> >> Bob
> > Is that the one where he uses 3 cups of oil to make a roux? > > Jon
> I think it might be -- it sounds familiar.
> Bob
I have a how to make gumbo page on my site......there is also my recipe for the gumbo we served in the restaurant and it's gooooooooooooooood.
> >> I used to have a gumbo night once a year in winter. Oh, lovely, > >> marvelous, > >> delicious. I've made it once here and it cost a month's grocery budget. > >> It was a bit of an excess I suppose, but there is nothing better in the > >> world.
> > What made it cost so much?! We use okra, onions, peppers, celery and > > garlic, oil and flour for the roux, smoked sausage and chicken thighs > > for the meat, chicken broth or water, basic herbs that we always have in > > the pantry and serve with rice, scallions and hot pepper vinegar. It's > > time consuming, but not expensive. I try to make a huge amount and > > freeze the extras. I may do that after Easter, in fact. > I thought the rice had to be cooked with the other ingredients. I don't > know, just thought I heard that. > Janet
I don't know how it has to be cooked, just how I cook it. I am not Cajun, I do not live in Louisiana and I make food as we like to eat it. :-)
Regards, Ranee @ Arabian Knits
"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13
Melba's Jammin' wrote: > Forgive me if I've asked before; forgive me if it's been discussed > recently: What makes gumbo be gumbo? The okra? The rice in the bowl > first? The addition of hot sauce at the table? The preparation of the > roux? Or is gumbo *only* the cajun name for a soup that uses leftover > game or poultry?
> I made another potful last night and I'm not looking for a recipe‹ I > have a couple in my files that provide guidance; I am interested in > conversation about what makes it gumbo.
> What are your thoughts?
If you're a purist okra makes the gumbo as "gumbo" is a West African word for okra. In daily use in this area gumbo is simply a word as many Cajuns here don't put okra in their version of gumbo.
zxcvbob wrote: > Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote: >> In article <barbschaller-BF2748.13510211032...@news-2.mpls.iphouse.net>, >> Melba's Jammin' <barbschal...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Forgive me if I've asked before; forgive me if it's been discussed >>> recently: What makes gumbo be gumbo? The okra? The rice in the >>> bowl first? The addition of hot sauce at the table? The preparation >>> of the roux? Or is gumbo *only* the cajun name for a soup that uses >>> leftover game or poultry?
>> Good question! I've seen sausage and chicken gumbo, alligator >> gumbo, shrimp gumbo. I think it might just be Cajun for thickened stew. >> I make gumbo with chicken thighs and spicy smoked sausages, okra, >> no file powder, lots of celery, onion and peppers, some garlic.
>> Regards, >> Ranee @ Arabian Knits
>> "She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13
> I've just started experimenting with file' powder to thicken watery > (tomato and bouillon based) soups without adding a starch. Haven't > quite figured out the amount yet; I know it can get ropey and nasty if > you cook it more than just a minute. Even tho' I haven't got the > thickening right yet, I do like the taste it adds.
> I found one gumbo recipe from Emerill that called for 1/2 cup of file > powder to about 2 quarts of shrimp stock (plus the fish and stuff.) I > may not know how much to use, but I know that's way too much!
> Bob
Most of the gumbo cooks in this part of Louisiana use file as a spice or herb and just use a little in the gumbo proper and a little more when they have it in the bowl.
Many people think of file as a thickener but okra works much better to thicken and a good roux does too. To much file turns the gumbo very bitter to my taste.
>>> I used to have a gumbo night once a year in winter. Oh, lovely, >>> marvelous, >>> delicious. I've made it once here and it cost a month's grocery budget. >>> It was a bit of an excess I suppose, but there is nothing better in the >>> world. >> What made it cost so much?! We use okra, onions, peppers, celery and >> garlic, oil and flour for the roux, smoked sausage and chicken thighs >> for the meat, chicken broth or water, basic herbs that we always have in >> the pantry and serve with rice, scallions and hot pepper vinegar. It's >> time consuming, but not expensive. I try to make a huge amount and >> freeze the extras. I may do that after Easter, in fact.
>> Regards, >> Ranee @ Arabian Knits > I thought the rice had to be cooked with the other ingredients. I don't > know, just thought I heard that. > Janet
Heathern! The rice is always cooked separately, you gonna go straight to the hot place for even thinking you chunk rice in the pot with the gumbo. <G>
Giusi wrote: > "Ranée at Arabian Knits" ha scritto nel messaggio > "Giusi" > <decob...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> I used to have a gumbo night once a year in winter. Oh, lovely, >>> marvelous, >> delicious. I've made it once here and it cost a month's >>> grocery budget.
>> What made it cost so much?! We use okra, onions, peppers, celery and > >> garlic, oil and flour for the roux, smoked sausage and chicken thighs > >> for the meat, chicken broth or water, basic herbs that we always have in > >> the pantry and serve with rice, scallions and hot pepper vinegar. It's > >> time consuming, but not expensive. I try to make a huge amount and >> freeze the extras.
> This particular Prudhonne recipe is luxurious with chicken, ham, oysters, > crab, shrimp and any other seafoods not nailed down. It was expensive in > the USA, but here where meat and fish cost 2-10 times as much it was killer.
I'm a purist I guess, gumbo is either chicken and sausage or seafood, most around here don't mix them together. I've never seen ham in a gumbo though, with beans and rice yes, but not in gumbo.
>>> In article <7vt103Fif...@mid.individual.net>, >>> "Giusi" <decob...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> I used to have a gumbo night once a year in winter. Oh, lovely, >>>> marvelous, >>>> delicious. I've made it once here and it cost a month's grocery budget. >>>> It was a bit of an excess I suppose, but there is nothing better in the >>>> world. >>> What made it cost so much?! We use okra, onions, peppers, celery and >>> garlic, oil and flour for the roux, smoked sausage and chicken thighs >>> for the meat, chicken broth or water, basic herbs that we always have in >>> the pantry and serve with rice, scallions and hot pepper vinegar. It's >>> time consuming, but not expensive. I try to make a huge amount and >>> freeze the extras. I may do that after Easter, in fact. >>> Regards, >>> Ranee @ Arabian Knits >> I thought the rice had to be cooked with the other ingredients. I don't >> know, just thought I heard that. >> Janet- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
> Most gumbos in S. Louisiana are not cooked with the rice in them. > Usually rice is served as a scoop on top of the gumbo or > the gunbo is ladeled over the rice.
Lots of folks in SW Louisiana eat potato salad with their gumbo, they just dump a scoop of potato salad in the bowl with the rice and gumbo. I've never tried it, it just doesn't appeal to my taste buds.
I've Cajun friends, she's a Leger, he's an Hebert. That's pronounced LayJay and Abear. They put peeled boiled eggs in their gumbo, doesn't taste bad as the eggs take on the taste of the gumbo main ingredient but it sure looks strange the first time you see it.
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