She needs to apply for a 504 (Section 504 protects individuals with disabilities against discrimination in any program or activity receiving federal financial assistance. ) Her Dr should be able to help her with this if the school won't.
"Ted Rosenberg" <tedrosenb...@iname.com> wrote in message
> Pan Ohco wrote: >> On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 08:46:38 -0400, Ted Rosenberg wrote:
>>>silers wrote:
>>>>Thanks Kurt. Still having trouble with our school. Tasha
>>>What you Shae to do is notify the principal that you are filing criminal >>>charges against him under the law,
>>>Write to the US Department of Education, Office of Civil Rights and tell >>>them about the failure of the school to follow the disabilities law.
>> I don't know about that, hopefully Will will jump in here. >> The school can claim that they are making a reasonable accommodation, >> by allowing the mother to enter the school, daily to give the child >> her injections. > No, that is NOT a "reasonable accommodation", and they would not even TRY > to make a stupid claim like that to the State department of Education. > (after a single OCR report, the feds make the State go in. They don't > actually prosecute unless there are multiple complaints, or it has already > gone through the State due Process and investigation route)
> BUT, she does not actually WANT a reasonable accommodation, she just wants > a place to whine, we cal that "child abuse"
Ted Rosenberg wrote: > Pan Ohco wrote: >> On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 08:46:38 -0400, Ted Rosenberg wrote:
>>> silers wrote:
>>>> Thanks Kurt. Still having trouble with our school. Tasha
>>> What you Shae to do is notify the principal that you are filing >>> criminal charges against him under the law,
>>> Write to the US Department of Education, Office of Civil Rights and >>> tell them about the failure of the school to follow the disabilities >>> law.
>> I don't know about that, hopefully Will will jump in here. >> The school can claim that they are making a reasonable accommodation, >> by allowing the mother to enter the school, daily to give the child >> her injections. > No, that is NOT a "reasonable accommodation", and they would not even > TRY to make a stupid claim like that to the State department of > Education. (after a single OCR report, the feds make the State go in. > They don't actually prosecute unless there are multiple complaints, or > it has already gone through the State due Process and investigation > route)
> BUT, she does not actually WANT a reasonable accommodation, she just > wants a place to whine, we cal that "child abuse"
She wants advise. She is concerned that while pushing hard might get her way immediately, there might be other reprisals. A school district has a lot of power, and if they choose to be vindictive, then it becomes very hard to tie their behavior to the parents' pushing the school district over lack of legally-required care.
As a result, it is desirable to use the minimum amount of leverage required to achieve the necessary outcome.
On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:06:03 -0500, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote: > x-no-archive: yes
> Michael wrote:
>> She wants advise. She is concerned that while pushing hard might get >> her way immediately, there might be other reprisals. A school district >> has a lot of power, and if they choose to be vindictive, then it >> becomes very hard to tie their behavior to the parents' pushing the >> school district over lack of legally-required care. >> As a result, it is desirable to use the minimum amount of leverage >> required to achieve the necessary outcome.
> One has to wonder though, what the school district could do that would > be worse than failing to supply a nurse and/or other staff members > educated to meet the needs of a small type 1 diabetic child in > accordance with the law.
> Susan
There are lots of nasty, vindictive little things that can be done in a small town. The "school district" is the "friends and neighbors" and all of their "friends, neighbors and relatives."
The school district is people. And people are not always rational, fair, or tolerant. It's a "blood is thicker than water" mentality, and if you mess with my brother, I mess with you -- whether or not my brother was dead wrong to begin with.
We've had quite a few little "incidents" here at the house since I pulled my son out of school last winter. Nothing I can prove -- I only have my suspicions, and of course no one ever sees, hears, or knows anything.
I always find it interesting that the people who are gung-ho "it's your right" types aren't the ones who have to deal with the consequences.
It's illegal to burn people out of their houses, too, but it happens here all the time when a black family moves in. So would you tell them just keep building houses, because it's your right to live here? When they get tired of losing everything they own, will you replace it, because it is their right to live here?
There's what's legal, what's right, what's moral, and what's realistic. I don't find fault with this mother because she's trying to balance all of these things. If it were that simple, she could just move, and hope she didn't end up in a worse situation -- out of the frying pan and into the fire, so to speak.
[Default] On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:25:56 -0500, BlueBrooke <bluenospambro...@gmail.com> Maniacally Screamed the following like a drunken BlueBrooke <bluenospambro...@gmail.com> into the madness of usenet:
>On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:06:03 -0500, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> Michael wrote:
>>> She wants advise. She is concerned that while pushing hard might get >>> her way immediately, there might be other reprisals. A school district >>> has a lot of power, and if they choose to be vindictive, then it >>> becomes very hard to tie their behavior to the parents' pushing the >>> school district over lack of legally-required care. >>> As a result, it is desirable to use the minimum amount of leverage >>> required to achieve the necessary outcome.
>> One has to wonder though, what the school district could do that would >> be worse than failing to supply a nurse and/or other staff members >> educated to meet the needs of a small type 1 diabetic child in >> accordance with the law.
>> Susan
>There are lots of nasty, vindictive little things that can be done in a >small town. The "school district" is the "friends and neighbors" and all >of their "friends, neighbors and relatives."
>The school district is people. And people are not always rational, fair, >or tolerant. It's a "blood is thicker than water" mentality, and if you >mess with my brother, I mess with you -- whether or not my brother was >dead wrong to begin with.
>We've had quite a few little "incidents" here at the house since I pulled >my son out of school last winter. Nothing I can prove -- I only have my >suspicions, and of course no one ever sees, hears, or knows anything.
>I always find it interesting that the people who are gung-ho "it's your >right" types aren't the ones who have to deal with the consequences.
I always find it funny that people like you make things in threads like this about gung-ho people like who are type 1 and grew up as type 1s in the same situation this child is in and are still dealing with constant diabetic discrimination.
>It's illegal to burn people out of their houses, too, but it happens here >all the time when a black family moves in. So would you tell them just >keep building houses, because it's your right to live here? When they get >tired of losing everything they own, will you replace it, because it is >their right to live here?
where do you live? Alabama? Running away from the clan is not the solution.
>There's what's legal, what's right, what's moral, and what's realistic. I >don't find fault with this mother because she's trying to balance all of >these things. If it were that simple, she could just move, and hope she >didn't end up in a worse situation -- out of the frying pan and into the >fire, so to speak.
besides fear, what solutions do you actually have with any of life's problems and confrontations?
Believe it or not, people still see the ostrich when it sticks it's head in the sand.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt
(o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins
Jesus never hated anyone.
DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... .
> One has to wonder though, what the school district could do that would be > worse than failing to supply a nurse and/or other staff members educated > to meet the needs of a small type 1 diabetic child in accordance with the > law.
They can make life miserable, difficult, or even worse, for the next 12 years or more -- for any children from that family & possibly their friends children as well. And they can do things in subtle ways that make it obvious to the victims as to "why" but not obvious enough that you can get any action taken.
And then there's the little matter of this family has to live in a community that may blame them for "causing trouble for our wonderful school". bj
Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote: > x-no-archive: yes
> BlueBrooke wrote:
> > There are lots of nasty, vindictive little things that can be done in a > > small town. The "school district" is the "friends and neighbors" and > > all of their "friends, neighbors and relatives."
> > The school district is people. And people are not always rational, > > fair, or tolerant. It's a "blood is thicker than water" mentality, and > > if you mess with my brother, I mess with you -- whether or not my > > brother was dead wrong to begin with.
> > We've had quite a few little "incidents" here at the house since I > > pulled my son out of school last winter. Nothing I can prove -- I only > > have my suspicions, and of course no one ever sees, hears, or knows > > anything.
> > I always find it interesting that the people who are gung-ho "it's your > > right" types aren't the ones who have to deal with the consequences.
> Uh, if you've read this whole thread, you cannot count me as one of > those folks. I had to alternate between negotiation, compromise and > hardball to have my child's needs met by a school district in a very > small town. I completely understand the OP's concerns. I just think > that the failure of the school to act in a legal and responsible manner > here threatens the child's life and safety.
> > It's illegal to burn people out of their houses, too, but it happens > > here all the time when a black family moves in. So would you tell them > > just keep building houses, because it's your right to live here? When > > they get tired of losing everything they own, will you replace it, > > because it is their right to live here?
> Hardly analogous. You sound a tad overwrought.
> > There's what's legal, what's right, what's moral, and what's realistic. > > I don't find fault with this mother because she's trying to balance all > > of these things. If it were that simple, she could just move, and hope > > she didn't end up in a worse situation -- out of the frying pan and > > into the fire, so to speak.
> I don't find fault with the OP, I find fault with the school district. > As a parent who had the need to get from a small town, recalcitrant > school district what they did not want to offer, I am attuned to all the > issues.
> At some point, we have to be firm, without declaring war, and have a > bottom line when it comes to our children's safety.
And remember, the OP's been hit, recently, with this medical situation affecting her 6 year-old child. She needs to work out the following:
(1) How she would *like* her daughter to be treated (2) What the school district is legally required to do (3) How to get the school district to treat her daughter in the way that she wants
There's a lot of information-gathering required for all of these decisions, and a lot of the advice she's receiving here is confusing points (2) and (3). But, she needs to be on a really firm footing with (2) before she works out her strategy for (3).
-- AF "Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team." --artyw raises the bar on rec.sport.baseball
>> One has to wonder though, what the school district could do that would be >> worse than failing to supply a nurse and/or other staff members educated >> to meet the needs of a small type 1 diabetic child in accordance with the >> law.
>They can make life miserable, difficult, or even worse, for the next 12 >years or more -- for any children from that family & possibly their friends >children as well. And they can do things in subtle ways that make it obvious >to the victims as to "why" but not obvious enough that you can get any >action taken.
>And then there's the little matter of this family has to live in a community >that may blame them for "causing trouble for our wonderful school". >bj
Hi bj,
Remember those great Pink Floyd lyrics from "The Wall"?
Well, when we grew up and went to school, There were certain teachers, Who would hurt the children in any way they could, By pouring their derision, Upon anything we did, Exposing every weakness, However carefully hidden by the kids.
It happens all the time....
Teachers are in a position to make the life of any child a living hell in subtle ways, if they have malevolent hearts.
On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:39:58 -0500, Ma¢k <stopthes...@shootspammers.com> wrote:
>> I always find it interesting that the people who are gung-ho "it's your >> right" types aren't the ones who have to deal with the consequences.
> I always find it funny that people like you make things in threads > like this about gung-ho people like who are type 1 and grew up as type > 1s in the same situation this child is in and are still dealing with > constant diabetic discrimination.
Huh? Please read that again, make the appropriate corrections, and let me know what you're really saying. I can usually decipher your writing, but not this time. You seem to be suggesting that since I'm not a T1, I have no business in this discussion? If that *is* the case, I hope the T1s will take that advice as regards situations involving T2s?
dis‧crim‧i‧na‧tion –noun 1. an act or instance of discriminating. 2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit.
Will you please explain how this child is being discriminated against because she is a diabetic? She isn't being denied an education. True, the arrangements that have been made, or lack thereof, are inconvenient for her mother, who has to drag two smaller children to the school to give her daughter insulin shots, but how does "inconvenience" become "discrimination?"
They need to make arrangements to take care of her at school. They are giving Mom the run around -- either from ignorance of the law or fear of liability or just plain orneriness. I simply suggest that sending in the SWAT team is not the ONLY solution when Mom still has to live with these people *after* this situation is resolved. It's not like a TV show where the bad guy is shot or goes to jail and is never heard from again. This whole group will have to co-exist after the matter is settled. Much better for all concerned if they still have mutual respect for each other, don't you think?
>> It's illegal to burn people out of their houses, too, but it happens >> here >> all the time when a black family moves in. So would you tell them just >> keep building houses, because it's your right to live here? When they >> get >> tired of losing everything they own, will you replace it, because it is >> their right to live here?
> where do you live? Alabama?
It's Missouri, actually. Not as bad as Alabama, I don't think, but there are enough "Bubbas" who live here. And yes, they are just as disgusting as you might imagine them to be.
> Running away from the clan is not the solution.
I'll tell 'em you said that -- I'm sure that will make them feel so much better.
>> There's what's legal, what's right, what's moral, and what's >> realistic. I >> don't find fault with this mother because she's trying to balance all of >> these things. If it were that simple, she could just move, and hope she >> didn't end up in a worse situation -- out of the frying pan and into the >> fire, so to speak.
> besides fear, what solutions do you actually have with any of life's > problems and confrontations?
I don't live in fear. I don't stick my face in a lion's mouth, either.
I have the right-of-way in the crosswalk, too -- but I don't step out in front of a speeding drunk.
So having common sense means living in fear? I'll have to write that down --
Perhaps I don't have as many confrontations as you do because I don't feel the need to address every incident with a fight?
> Believe it or not, people still see the ostrich when it sticks it's > head in the sand.
Okay, so because I'm homeschooling my son, I'm an ostrich now? I guess I should have left him at the school, fought with them for another six or seven years so they would do it "my way" and dealt with an uneducated kid *after* he was graduated from high school? Huh?
You're right -- that approach makes much more sense -- I guess --
It wasn't fear that made me pull this kid out of school -- it was my refusal to deal with the idiots that were running the school district. If that smells of fear to you, you haven't been paying attention.
[Default] On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 13:31:24 -0500, BlueBrooke <bluenospambro...@gmail.com> Maniacally Screamed the following like a drunken BlueBrooke <bluenospambro...@gmail.com> into the madness of usenet:
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt
(o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins
Jesus never hated anyone.
DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... .
On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:38:44 -0400, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote:
> She has to know what the issues >and options are before she advocates. One thing that is completely >clear is that the district is violating more than one federal statute
You are absolutely right about that, Susan.... We put the info out there exhaustively a few threads back.
I think there has to be a constructive "middle way" which would make the gang busting heavy artillery of law suits unnecessary. In my opinion, lawsuits and complaints to the Feds should be a last resort, when other measures fail, especially in a small town... Nevertheless, at some point action has to be taken. The OP is in a delicate situation, and the health of a small child is caught in the balance.
I grew up in a small town, abeit a college town. In those places, everyone does know everyone else, and word does get around....
On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:54:25 -0500, bj <bjone...@bellatlantic.net> wrote: > "Susan" <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote in message > news:4n2p7nF8gernU1@individual.net...
>> One has to wonder though, what the school district could do that would >> be >> worse than failing to supply a nurse and/or other staff members educated >> to meet the needs of a small type 1 diabetic child in accordance with >> the >> law.
> They can make life miserable, difficult, or even worse, for the next 12 > years or more -- for any children from that family & possibly their > friends > children as well. And they can do things in subtle ways that make it > obvious > to the victims as to "why" but not obvious enough that you can get any > action taken.
> And then there's the little matter of this family has to live in a > community > that may blame them for "causing trouble for our wonderful school". > bj
Hi, BJ --
We just had an incident at a nearby school this past year. One of the star basketball players threatened some of the other kids, even to the point of bringing a gun to the school, I believe (I wasn't there -- this is all second hand info).
He made no secret of the whole thing, and one of the kids he was bragging to turned him in to the principal. I don't know what they did with the kid who caused all the commotion, but for the kid who turned him in, life has just been hell ever since (constantly being beat up, head stuck in the toilet, his books and papers stolen and torn up, etc., etc.). Apparently, winning the state championship is more important to these idiots than keeping their kids safe.
I haven't talked to this boy's mother in a few weeks, but last I heard they were ready to sell their house and leave. Kids can already be really mean -- but apparently the "treatment" afforded the "snitch" included various nasties from the teachers and parents and a "kids will be kids" attitude from the principal and administrators.
silers wrote: > You know, there is such a thing as pushing without litigating someone. I'm > so sick of sue-happy people like you. Nothing like alienating your entire > family from the community at large because I sued the school corporation. > Especially in a town where there are only about 20,000 people, and everyone > knows everyone else.
The assistant principal is Type 2, and uses insulin himself.
Why haven't you assigned HIM the task of overseeing your daughter test and inject herself?
>>>I have to agree that I do not want to alienate these people. I'm putting >>>my daughter's life in their hands, and the last thing I need is >>>resentment towards me and her. She has a hard enough time at school with >>>this without them feeling ill will towards her also. I have to laugh at >>>the assistant principal though. He's a type 2, and he just automatically >>>assumed everything was exactly the same with type 1. He doesn't check >>>himself at all, and only gets two injections a day, so he assumed she >>>would be that way also. Boy, did he get an eye-opener! >>>Thank you for allowing me to vent earlier. Sometimes I feel like it's >>>the world against my daughter and I. I feel much better now.
>>>>>What you Shae to do is notify the principal that you are filing criminal >>>>>charges against him under the law,
>>>>>Write to the US Department of Education, Office of Civil Rights and tell >>>>>them about the failure of the school to follow the disabilities law.
>>>>>You should contact the REGIONAL office. I donut know what region you >>>>>are in, but call the national office and ask them
>>>>>That will get some action going,
>>>>>Next, contact the children s disability advocates in your area, Check >>>>>with the ACLU, and the Juvenile diabetes foundation as to whose local.
>>>>>Drop me a line if you need more help finding people.
>>>>This is all very fine, and legally justified. However, just how much does >>>>she want to alienate the staff at the school her daughter will perhaps be >>>>attending for the next 6 years or so?
>>>>I understand the problems. I'm not sure the solutions are that easy.
>>SUCKER!!
>>Why dont you just put a sign on her saying "kick me"?
[Default] On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 13:47:43 -0500, BlueBrooke <bluenospambro...@gmail.com> Maniacally Screamed the following like a drunken BlueBrooke <bluenospambro...@gmail.com> into the madness of usenet:
>>> One has to wonder though, what the school district could do that would >>> be >>> worse than failing to supply a nurse and/or other staff members educated >>> to meet the needs of a small type 1 diabetic child in accordance with >>> the >>> law.
>> They can make life miserable, difficult, or even worse, for the next 12 >> years or more -- for any children from that family & possibly their >> friends >> children as well. And they can do things in subtle ways that make it >> obvious >> to the victims as to "why" but not obvious enough that you can get any >> action taken.
>> And then there's the little matter of this family has to live in a >> community >> that may blame them for "causing trouble for our wonderful school". >> bj
>Hi, BJ --
>We just had an incident at a nearby school this past year. One of the >star basketball players threatened some of the other kids, even to the >point of bringing a gun to the school, I believe (I wasn't there -- this >is all second hand info).
>He made no secret of the whole thing, and one of the kids he was bragging >to turned him in to the principal. I don't know what they did with the >kid who caused all the commotion, but for the kid who turned him in, life >has just been hell ever since (constantly being beat up, head stuck in the >toilet, his books and papers stolen and torn up, etc., etc.). Apparently, >winning the state championship is more important to these idiots than >keeping their kids safe.
>I haven't talked to this boy's mother in a few weeks, but last I heard >they were ready to sell their house and leave. Kids can already be really >mean -- but apparently the "treatment" afforded the "snitch" included >various nasties from the teachers and parents and a "kids will be kids" >attitude from the principal and administrators.
>Blue
so you're saying that a 6 year old has to fear that kind of retaliation from other 6 year olds and their teachers?
if so, the values of the parents of all the children in that community are non-existent and in that case it would be good to scrape them off your shoes and move on.
you are describing an entire community that has rotted from within.
what if anything did the family do to put a stop to the abuse of the child?
what has anyone else in that same community, you included, done to put a stop to it?
ever hear the phrase:
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...
is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke (1729-1797) Irish philosopher, statesman.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt
(o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins
Jesus never hated anyone.
DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... .
> [Default] On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 13:47:43 -0500, BlueBrooke > <bluenospambro...@gmail.com> Maniacally Screamed the following like a > drunken BlueBrooke <bluenospambro...@gmail.com> into the madness of > usenet:
>>>> One has to wonder though, what the school district could do that would >>>> be >>>> worse than failing to supply a nurse and/or other staff members >>>> educated >>>> to meet the needs of a small type 1 diabetic child in accordance with >>>> the >>>> law.
>>> They can make life miserable, difficult, or even worse, for the next 12 >>> years or more -- for any children from that family & possibly their >>> friends >>> children as well. And they can do things in subtle ways that make it >>> obvious >>> to the victims as to "why" but not obvious enough that you can get any >>> action taken.
>>> And then there's the little matter of this family has to live in a >>> community >>> that may blame them for "causing trouble for our wonderful school". >>> bj
>> Hi, BJ --
>> We just had an incident at a nearby school this past year. One of the >> star basketball players threatened some of the other kids, even to the >> point of bringing a gun to the school, I believe (I wasn't there -- this >> is all second hand info).
>> He made no secret of the whole thing, and one of the kids he was >> bragging >> to turned him in to the principal. I don't know what they did with the >> kid who caused all the commotion, but for the kid who turned him in, >> life >> has just been hell ever since (constantly being beat up, head stuck in >> the >> toilet, his books and papers stolen and torn up, etc., etc.). >> Apparently, >> winning the state championship is more important to these idiots than >> keeping their kids safe.
>> I haven't talked to this boy's mother in a few weeks, but last I heard >> they were ready to sell their house and leave. Kids can already be >> really >> mean -- but apparently the "treatment" afforded the "snitch" included >> various nasties from the teachers and parents and a "kids will be kids" >> attitude from the principal and administrators.
>> Blue
> so you're saying that a 6 year old has to fear that kind of > retaliation from other 6 year olds and their teachers?
> if so, the values of the parents of all the children in that community > are non-existent and in that case it would be good to scrape them off > your shoes and move on.
> you are describing an entire community that has rotted from within.
> what if anything did the family do to put a stop to the abuse of the > child?
> what has anyone else in that same community, you included, done to put > a stop to it?
I don't know what I did to light a fire under your ass, Mack -- none of your other toys want to play with you today?
These people have been idiots since day one -- they certainly don't give a crap about what the new Yankee in town thinks of them. Yes, I'm still the "new Yankee," despite having lived here for over seven years now. If you aren't born in the right barn, and related to half the county, you are always "the new" one here.
> ever hear the phrase:
> "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...
> is for good men to do nothing."
> Edmund Burke (1729-1797) > Irish philosopher, statesman.
Great -- get off your ass and get down here and educate them! Shown them the error of their ways! That quote is even more accurate than you know -- the fact that I don't have a penis makes it even less likely that they will have any interest in my opinion.
I just want to know what is going to happen, if this little girl goes into a low ,and no one was interested in learning how to help her when needed. People can gripe and moan but the issue is this little girls health and her Mother will not always be there if needed. Yes the little girl does need to learn about her diabetes ...she is still very young, but we have heard about adults that get rushed to the hospital ...how scary would it be to this little girl if she gets so confused she can't even talk. Then who would blame who....
"Ma¢k" <stopthes...@shootspammers.com> wrote in message
> [Default] On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 13:47:43 -0500, BlueBrooke > <bluenospambro...@gmail.com> Maniacally Screamed the following like a > drunken BlueBrooke <bluenospambro...@gmail.com> into the madness of > usenet:
>>>> One has to wonder though, what the school district could do that would >>>> be >>>> worse than failing to supply a nurse and/or other staff members >>>> educated >>>> to meet the needs of a small type 1 diabetic child in accordance with >>>> the >>>> law.
>>> They can make life miserable, difficult, or even worse, for the next 12 >>> years or more -- for any children from that family & possibly their >>> friends >>> children as well. And they can do things in subtle ways that make it >>> obvious >>> to the victims as to "why" but not obvious enough that you can get any >>> action taken.
>>> And then there's the little matter of this family has to live in a >>> community >>> that may blame them for "causing trouble for our wonderful school". >>> bj
>>Hi, BJ --
>>We just had an incident at a nearby school this past year. One of the >>star basketball players threatened some of the other kids, even to the >>point of bringing a gun to the school, I believe (I wasn't there -- this >>is all second hand info).
>>He made no secret of the whole thing, and one of the kids he was bragging >>to turned him in to the principal. I don't know what they did with the >>kid who caused all the commotion, but for the kid who turned him in, life >>has just been hell ever since (constantly being beat up, head stuck in the >>toilet, his books and papers stolen and torn up, etc., etc.). Apparently, >>winning the state championship is more important to these idiots than >>keeping their kids safe.
>>I haven't talked to this boy's mother in a few weeks, but last I heard >>they were ready to sell their house and leave. Kids can already be really >>mean -- but apparently the "treatment" afforded the "snitch" included >>various nasties from the teachers and parents and a "kids will be kids" >>attitude from the principal and administrators.
>>Blue
> so you're saying that a 6 year old has to fear that kind of > retaliation from other 6 year olds and their teachers?
> if so, the values of the parents of all the children in that community > are non-existent and in that case it would be good to scrape them off > your shoes and move on.
> you are describing an entire community that has rotted from within.
> what if anything did the family do to put a stop to the abuse of the > child?
> what has anyone else in that same community, you included, done to put > a stop to it?
> ever hear the phrase:
> "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...
> is for good men to do nothing."
> Edmund Burke (1729-1797) > Irish philosopher, statesman.
> "To announce that there must be no criticism of the > President, or that we are to stand by the President > right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, > but is morally treasonable to the American public." > ...Theodore Roosevelt
> (o ô) > --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------
> "I don't know half of you > half as well as I should like; > and I like less than half of you > half as well as you deserve." > ....Bilbo Baggins
> Jesus never hated anyone.
> DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me > offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. > If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to > me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... > .
They are going to hate to see how responsible they should have been if this little girl gets in trouble and no one is there to help her......the repercussions could be pretty nasty..... -- Jacquie
>>> You know, there is such a thing as pushing without litigating someone. >>> I'm so sick of sue-happy people like you. Nothing like alienating your >>> entire family from the community at large because I sued the school >>> corporation. Especially in a town where there are only about 20,000 >>> people, and everyone knows everyone else.
>> The assistant principal is Type 2, and uses insulin himself.
>> Why haven't you assigned HIM the task of overseeing your daughter test >> and inject herself?
>> Why hasn't this loser volunteered?
> Maybe because the loser doesn't even test himself regularly, according to > the OP?
> And because no one in the district is taking any responsibility for that > child.
W.M.McKee wrote: > On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:38:44 -0400, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> > wrote:
>>She has to know what the issues >>and options are before she advocates. One thing that is completely >>clear is that the district is violating more than one federal statute
> You are absolutely right about that, Susan.... We put the info out > there exhaustively a few threads back.
> I think there has to be a constructive "middle way" which would make > the gang busting heavy artillery of law suits unnecessary. In my > opinion, lawsuits and complaints to the Feds should be a last resort, > when other measures fail, especially in a small town... Nevertheless, > at some point action has to be taken. The OP is in a delicate > situation, and the health of a small child is caught in the balance.
> I grew up in a small town, abeit a college town. In those places, > everyone does know everyone else, and word does get around....
> Will, T2
No, the indicated proper procedure is to file a complaint with OCR. Don't do that and you have forfeited all rights. After a complaint, the State will usually assign a mediator, and call non-binding mediation within 2 weeks. The head of Special Ed for the local school board will PROBABLY call the assistant principal in and place him on probation, and the system will get it's act together.
The more cumbersome alternate is to demand an ARD meeting, and, when one is scheduled at an improper time, or in more than ten days, file with the state for a Due Process hearing. The State WILL assign an Administrative law judge and a Mediator and schedule a hearing within 30 days. Non-binding mediation will usually preceded the hearing by a week. The school system will almost always take order action on mediation, not waiting to get reamed in a hearing.
The courts have held that failing to properly file complaints constitutes a waiver of rights.
>>>One has to wonder though, what the school district could do that would be >>>worse than failing to supply a nurse and/or other staff members educated >>>to meet the needs of a small type 1 diabetic child in accordance with the >>>law.
>>They can make life miserable, difficult, or even worse, for the next 12 >>years or more -- for any children from that family & possibly their friends >>children as well. And they can do things in subtle ways that make it obvious >>to the victims as to "why" but not obvious enough that you can get any >>action taken.
>>And then there's the little matter of this family has to live in a community >>that may blame them for "causing trouble for our wonderful school". >>bj
> Hi bj,
> Remember those great Pink Floyd lyrics from "The Wall"?
> Well, when we grew up and went to school, > There were certain teachers, > Who would hurt the children in any way they could, > By pouring their derision, > Upon anything we did, > Exposing every weakness, > However carefully hidden by the kids.
> It happens all the time....
> Teachers are in a position to make the life of any child a living hell > in subtle ways, if they have malevolent hearts.
> Will, T2
Violating the disability acts, is a good way for a teacher to get into REAL trouble. FIRST, he or she is stripped of his license, and is bared from ever teaching in any school in the country THEN there are various fines on the teacher AND on the LEA - the school board is NOT going to be happy about that.
I had a case once where a teacher was unwilling to deal with a child's disability (despite being given substantial extra resources). The Special Ed Ombudsman threatened to file a complaint with OCR. A complaint from her would almost guarantee that the teacher would be out of a job forever. The principal said that because the teacher was fine when she didn't have to deal with any S LD's. offered to personally regrade ALL the papers and tests, remove all authority of the teacher over the student, put the teacher on probation, and have a special review of any similar complaints. The Assistant principal advised the teacher to appeal - the Assistant principal was then forced to take early retirement, and the principal and the Area superintendent
Usually things are not so dramatic. Often, the central office WANTS to follow the law, the Assistant principal is the problem.
<tedrosenb...@iname.com> wrote: >The courts have held that failing to properly file complaints >constitutes a waiver of rights.
Certainly that is the case in most EEOC cases brought under Title VII, and the deadline is 180 days from the time of the alleged discrimination. Under the Americans with Disabilities Act, in the employment context, it is also 180 days in some states, but seems to be 300 days in others, like Washington State.
Since the application of the IDEA and ADA to the rights of school children is not my normal area of practice, I am not exactly sure of the filing deadlines in such cases, because each day of violation can be considered as a fresh violation. Also, in some states, at least, it appears that filing a complaint prematurely can result in a loss of a right to a later due process hearing undr state procedures.... Any parent wanting to pursue these remedies should consult with a lawyer practicing in this area of law in their own home jurisdiction.
Here is an interesting summary I have recently come across that is disseminated by the Autism Society of America.
Here is a useful link to copaa, or the Council on Parent Attorneys and Advocates. They should be helpful in providing some of this information. Pay particular attention to the IDEA 2004.
Here is all the applicable Federal Law I can find right now on the subject.
Individuals with Disabilities Education Act ("IDEA"); codified at 20 U.S.C. [United States Code] § 1400 with regulations appearing at 34 C.F.R. [Code of Federal Regulations] § 300.
Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act; codified at 29 U.S.C. § 794 with regulations appearing at 34 C.F.R. § 104
Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act ("FERPA"); codified at 20 U.S.C. § 1232g with regulations appearing at 34 C.F.R. § 99 (FERPA gives parents of all students the right to inspect all information maintained by the school district in connection with their child)
Americans with Disabilities Act ("ADA"); codified at 42 U.S.C. § 12101 with regulations appearing at 28 C.F.R. § 35.
Technology Related Assistance For Individuals With Disabilities, codified at 29 U.S.C. Sec. 2109 (this statute, which broadly defines the term "assistive technology," can be relied upon to seek computer "touch screens, specialized recording and playback devices (e.g. "Language Master") and essentially all other devices, items and systems which are used to "...increase, maintain or improve functional capabilities of individuals with disabilities").
No Child Left Behind Act
Another good resource for info in this area would be the Center for Law and Education.
[Default] On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 18:05:57 -0500, BlueBrooke <bluenospambro...@gmail.com> Maniacally Screamed the following like a drunken BlueBrooke <bluenospambro...@gmail.com> into the madness of usenet:
>Great -- get off your ass and get down here and educate them! Shown them >the error of their ways! That quote is even more accurate than you know >-- the fact that I don't have a penis makes it even less likely that they >will have any interest in my opinion.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt
(o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins
Jesus never hated anyone.
DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... .
[Default] On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 06:03:25 GMT, "jacquie" <happikat...@nospam.net> Maniacally Screamed the following like a drunken "jacquie" <happikat...@nospam.net> into the madness of usenet:
>I just want to know what is going to happen, if this little girl goes into a >low ,and no one was interested in learning how to help her when needed. >People can gripe and moan but the issue is this little girls health and her >Mother will not always be there if needed. Yes the little girl does need to >learn about her diabetes ...she is still very young, but we have heard about >adults that get rushed to the hospital ...how scary would it be to this >little girl if she gets so confused she can't even talk. Then who would >blame who....
it depends on the situation. However at 6 years old, she shouldn't be out of sight of any teacher for very long, except restroom breaks. What would happen is, the ambulance would be called while everyone stood around watching.
What we would pray for is that the hypo is not so severe as to cause her to fall and injure herself or cause any immediate damage due to lack of oxygen if she severe enough to black out.
How frightening would it be for her? I don't know, but my first severe low as child left me unable to move more than flopping my arms and kicking out while lying on the ground, couldn't talk, but I was fully aware. I didn't have another one like that for many years.
wait till she gets older, and it happens at work and you face the same stupidity as far as anyone being willing to learn how to help in hypo and then having to jump through hoops just to save the job and not get fired.
Teach the child to run away now, that it is more important not to offend anyone or require them to abide by the law and she'll be running for the rest of her life.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt
(o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins
Jesus never hated anyone.
DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... .
>>The courts have held that failing to properly file complaints >>constitutes a waiver of rights.
> Certainly that is the case in most EEOC cases brought under Title VII, > and the deadline is 180 days from the time of the alleged > discrimination. Under the Americans with Disabilities Act, in the > employment context, it is also 180 days in some states, but seems to > be 300 days in others, like Washington State.
> Since the application of the IDEA and ADA to the rights of school > children is not my normal area of practice, I am not exactly sure of > the filing deadlines in such cases, because each day of violation can > be considered as a fresh violation. Also, in some states, at least, it > appears that filing a complaint prematurely can result in a loss of a > right to a later due process hearing undr state procedures.... Any > parent wanting to pursue these remedies should consult with a lawyer > practicing in this area of law in their own home jurisdiction.
> Here is an interesting summary I have recently come across that is > disseminated by the Autism Society of America.
> Here is a useful link to copaa, or the Council on Parent Attorneys and > Advocates. They should be helpful in providing some of this > information. Pay particular attention to the IDEA 2004.
> Here is all the applicable Federal Law I can find right now on the > subject.
> Individuals with Disabilities Education Act ("IDEA"); codified at 20 > U.S.C. [United States Code] § 1400 with regulations appearing at 34 > C.F.R. [Code of Federal Regulations] § 300.
> Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act; codified at 29 U.S.C. § 794 > with regulations appearing at 34 C.F.R. § 104
> Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act ("FERPA"); codified at 20 > U.S.C. § 1232g with regulations appearing at 34 C.F.R. § 99 (FERPA > gives parents of all students the right to inspect all information > maintained by the school district in connection with their child)
> Americans with Disabilities Act ("ADA"); codified at 42 U.S.C. § 12101 > with regulations appearing at 28 C.F.R. § 35.
> Technology Related Assistance For Individuals With Disabilities, > codified at 29 U.S.C. Sec. 2109 (this statute, which broadly defines > the term "assistive technology," can be relied upon to seek computer > "touch screens, specialized recording and playback devices (e.g. > "Language Master") and essentially all other devices, items and > systems which are used to "...increase, maintain or improve functional > capabilities of individuals with disabilities").
> No Child Left Behind Act
> Another good resource for info in this area would be the Center for > Law and Education.
Good cites - State law does not apply in any case, the area is preempted by Federal. It is Civil Rights law. In he subject case, the Rehab Act applies, as a 504 plan will clearly handle the problem.
The non-complying LEEA's depend on complicit idiots who do not demand rights to get away with it.
Most representation in this field is done by free disability advocates, not lawyers. If you have an ARD meeting, the parent must be given a list of local advocacy groups. If one plans to SUE, you need a lawyer with disability law experience. Sometimes it is a good ides to get a lawyer for a Due Process hearing - if you win, the school must pay for them. In this case, it is so open and shut that most advocates would say that it is not worth the effort to try and get legal representation.
I have found that often it is a good idea to get an attorney who you can cc at the bottom of all corrospondance. Not for advice, most attorneys don't practice disability law, it is more for implied threat.
Ok This is Mr. Silers and I thank all of you for all of the information and Comments. But it seems as though there has been some question by some as to our "negligence" in the care of our child. There has been some comments as to my wife not thinking in the best interests of our child. I have had enough of it. She came here for help and to find information on the best way to make the school system take care of our child. Not to get into a long drawn out legal battle during which the care and health of our child and our older daughter would be jeopardized because of a school system is "pissed" because of the legalities and public image would be questioned. For that reason, which is for the safety and welfare of our children, we are approaching the situation in this approach. I am not ignoring the legal responsibility of the school system, they will be held liable for their responsibilities. The School District has hired a new Superintendent that will start tomorrow. I am going to meet with her tomorrow and will give her a fair chance in the fight. If she does what is required then the problem will resolve itself. If she doesn't then I will let her know that all legal means will be used to make them comply with all laws as well as all public media attention will be brought to the school system, we live in a small town and the local papers would love this kind of story. Until that time the first and foremost of importance is the health and safety of our children. I will not compromise that by trying to play big corporate lawyer thinking that I can sue anyone to try to make a buck off of my daughters disability. Be assured that we are making sure that our daughters health is being taken care of as we are only 3 min from the school and my wife doesn't work and she is there when needed. As for the emergencies, they are being taken care of. Thanks for listening, Tom (father of four girls that are WELL taken care of.)
"Ted Rosenberg" <tedrosenb...@iname.com> wrote in message
> W.M.McKee wrote: >> On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:38:44 -0400, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> >> wrote:
>>>She has to know what the issues and options are before she advocates. >>>One thing that is completely clear is that the district is violating more >>>than one federal statute
>> You are absolutely right about that, Susan.... We put the info out >> there exhaustively a few threads back.
>> I think there has to be a constructive "middle way" which would make >> the gang busting heavy artillery of law suits unnecessary. In my >> opinion, lawsuits and complaints to the Feds should be a last resort, >> when other measures fail, especially in a small town... Nevertheless, >> at some point action has to be taken. The OP is in a delicate >> situation, and the health of a small child is caught in the balance.
>> I grew up in a small town, abeit a college town. In those places, >> everyone does know everyone else, and word does get around....
>> Will, T2 > No, the indicated proper procedure is to file a complaint with OCR. Don't > do that and you have forfeited all rights. After a complaint, the State > will usually assign a mediator, and call non-binding mediation within 2 > weeks. The head of Special Ed for the local school board will PROBABLY > call the assistant principal in and place him on probation, and the system > will get it's act together.
> The more cumbersome alternate is to demand an ARD meeting, and, when one > is scheduled at an improper time, or in more than ten days, file with the > state for a Due Process hearing. The State WILL assign an Administrative > law judge and a Mediator and schedule a hearing within 30 days. > Non-binding mediation will usually preceded the hearing by a week. The > school system will almost always take order action on mediation, not > waiting to get reamed in a hearing.
> The courts have held that failing to properly file complaints constitutes > a waiver of rights.
[Default] On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 13:40:04 GMT, "silers" <sil...@earthlink.net> Maniacally Screamed the following like a drunken "silers" <sil...@earthlink.net> into the madness of usenet:
> Ok This is Mr. Silers and I thank all of you for all of the information >and Comments. But it seems as though there has been some question by some >as to our "negligence" in the care of our child. There has been some >comments as to my wife not thinking in the best interests of our child. I >have had enough of it. She came here for help and to find information on >the best way to make the school system take care of our child.
Not to get
>into a long drawn out legal battle during which the care and health of our >child and our older daughter would be jeopardized because of a school system >is "pissed" because of the legalities and public image would be questioned. >For that reason, which is for the safety and welfare of our children, we are >approaching the situation in this approach.
there are a few here with this paranoia. If however you live in a community that would retaliate against a 6 year old diabetic then you should seriously consider moving. Personally I don't think the teachers would retaliate against your child. That's just paranoia. But make it clear when you speak with the new super that any form of retaliation will not be tolerated. If you have been given grounds to believe it will happen.
> I am not ignoring the legal responsibility of the school system, they >will be held liable for their responsibilities. The School District has >hired a new Superintendent that will start tomorrow. I am going to meet >with her tomorrow and will give her a fair chance in the fight. If she does >what is required then the problem will resolve itself. If she doesn't then >I will let her know that all legal means will be used to make them comply >with all laws as well as all public media attention will be brought to the >school system, we live in a small town and the local papers would love this >kind of story. > Until that time the first and foremost of importance is the health and >safety of our children. I will not compromise that by trying to play big >corporate lawyer thinking that I can sue anyone to try to make a buck off of >my daughters disability.
you do know that a law suit for your daughter's rights in school would not actually involve you getting any money. You would be suing for her rights. you win, the court awards your daughter her rights and forces the school and staff to comply. No money crosses your hands except for you to pay for your lawyer.
Be assured that we are making sure that our
>daughters health is being taken care of as we are only 3 min from the school >and my wife doesn't work and she is there when needed. As for the >emergencies, they are being taken care of. > Thanks for listening, Tom (father of four girls that are WELL taken care >of.)
fighting for the rights of child with a disability or a chronic illness like type 1 diabetes is not easy. However no parent should ever allow fear to sway their decision or public opinion.
what you actually want from the school is something that should have already been in place for the health and safety of all the other children, diabetic and non-diabetic. A properly staffed school clinic or personnel trained to handle medical situations.
and the nature of newsgroups is that once a post is made it will rarely stay on one strict topic. you have to get used to threads morphing and changing over time and becoming selective in who you read and do not read. You are using outlook express to read and post to the newsgroup. Use the filter/kill file feature by right clicking on a posters name and selecting one of the filter options, such as ignore poster.
you can prevent yourself from having to see any posts directly from the individual you do not like.
you may still see some of what they post when other people reply to them and quote them in the reply. but you can just skip over and move on.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt
(o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins
Jesus never hated anyone.
DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... .
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